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[Music]

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welcome to the show this is a special

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edition I have Ralph Blumenthal and this

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is a few days after the debrief has

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released a lot has happened since then

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and Veteran journalist Ralph Blumenthal

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welcome to the show Thanks Martin great

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to be with you again yes it's always fun

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talking to you Ralph and uh let's uh

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this is like a major happening in the

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UFO world and it's really shaken some

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things up so the article came out uh I

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will pull it up and put it on the the

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other screen a lot of people wanted to

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know

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hold of me excuse me on this and that

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they wanted to know you know why the

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debrief and and uh which I think I'm not

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belittling in any type of way at all

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they do wonderful work and I have some

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friends there and all that so but why

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why was why the debrief why did you go

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with the debrief

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um well you know after 45 years at the

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New York Times as a staffer and then I

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retired

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um

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Leslie and I have done quite a bit of

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reporting for the New York Times

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including our big story in December 2017

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uh reporting the existence of a Secret

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Pentagon office which we called atip and

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other names OSAP in the beginning

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um that was investigating UFOs so that

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was a big breaking story in 2017 we

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wrote a number of stories since then

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including one very carefully written

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story on Crash retrievals we ran this by

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the times in an early version as soon as

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we got the information together back in

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April and they didn't want to go uh you

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know for the story I mean we they accept

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and reject different stories for

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different reasons

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um we got more information subsequently

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so

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you know it's it's a long difficult

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process to get a story of proved at the

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times and yeah so we took it around and

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we were talking to the Washington Post

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they were very interested in the story

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and then events sort of accelerated as I

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explained a little bit online

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and we felt that some pressure to put

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the story out quickly more quickly than

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the post was was prepared to go and the

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debrief was a place where Leslie and I

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had both published previously they're

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very expert intelligence and defense

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matters we are it's highly respected uh

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very well plugged in and they were

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prepared to move quickly and that's

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where the story ended up and it's gotten

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quite a reaction as you know

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yeah I was expecting their website to go

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down it did crash a few times

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well yeah yeah so yeah and so what has

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happened what has happened in the three

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days since this was published well a lot

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I mean the latest thing we hear is that

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people in Congress are pressing for

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hearings now

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um which is kind of the effect we wanted

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because one of uh David grush's

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complaints uh in the story was that uh

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Congress has been lied to he said uh

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illegally uh which information was

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illegally withheld from Congress

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um on these secret UFO or UAP recovery

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programs

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um so uh you know he he wanted action

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from Congress and he actually filed a

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complaint that he was retaliated against

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uh for his information which is another

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aspect of the story so the ball really

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was in in many ways in in congress's

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court and now it appears that it may be

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picked up and they want to have some

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hearings so he might be able to say some

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things

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um as a congressional witness that he

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couldn't say before and certainly he can

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he can back up things he told us and the

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debrief

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um about details of these recovery

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efforts

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right right and

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um there's you know there's a lot of

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people that have been asking a lot of

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different questions and let's go back to

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the the pressure of releasing this early

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or earlier

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um I understand that there were some

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leaks you know I mean this was going

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around someone called me a few weeks ago

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and said this was going to drop in the

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Washington Post and you know pay

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attention for I think it was last a week

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ago Monday uh it was expected to go out

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and you know all that type of thing

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how do are you aware of how the leaks

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got out there in David's name get out

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there on Twitter no we we don't but uh

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um I mean grush's name did emerge on the

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internet which was very damaging because

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we had we weren't ready yet to put out

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the story I mean it was all nailed down

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as far as we were concerned and and

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Martin let me emphasize that everything

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in this story is on the record no

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Anonymous sources everybody's identified

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we even have pictures of the main people

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talking to us uh Grocer's

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um uh claims are uh vetted not not

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necessarily vetted but uh he is uh

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acclaimed by different sources we quote

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by name in the article as as reliable

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and truthful and person of Integrity

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Etc

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um so

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um

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was getting uh threatening phone calls

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we we don't go into a lot of detail

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about the uh the dangers that he was

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facing but they were substantial

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um and we had to get the story out and

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we know that the mainstream media I've

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worked with the New York Times for 45

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years I know what their processes are

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like

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um similar at the Washington Post

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um so I don't fault them for the time

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they took on the story we just couldn't

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wait around for the for the process to

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be completed within with no end date in

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sight so we felt to protect uh you know

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David rush and again and because of the

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leaks that were coming out and the

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internet can be a vicious place

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um certainly yeah we owed it to him and

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to other sources to get the story out

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because the best protection for

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um source as you know in journalism is

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to get it out on the record you know

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people be

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um you know out there and then then they

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have a degree of safety that they didn't

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have before the stories put out so

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that's that's the story

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so well what what do you say to I hear

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this out there what do you say to we

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need more than claims at this point in

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the game we need to see the receipts are

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proof and how do we get more than just

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these claims how would that move forward

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well first of all David grush as we said

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in the story testified

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um uh in classified form to Congress

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um and he pre and they produced a

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transcript of hundreds of pages now we

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don't know uh what information he gave

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congress that's protected by the the

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secrecy constraints

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um there may well be more detail I'm

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sure there's more detail than he gave us

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there's no doubt about that so the

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people who say well he didn't give any

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details we don't know the details he

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gave congress that's protected

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um and as a matter of fact when he spoke

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to congressional committees he told them

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um in effect he had to withhold certain

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details because they weren't cleared at

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the level they needed to be cleared to

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receive this information so even on a

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committee level staff level

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uh he couldn't go into all the details

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he wanted to but he did share a

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considerable classic classified

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information with with Congress so

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um again we don't know the details he

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put into that

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um it's absolutely true that we did not

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produce pictures of of craft that he

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says the U.S has recovered intact or in

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peace in pieces

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um but those are very difficult pictures

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to get this is a very uh you know

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carefully uh

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you know secretive information that the

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government has accumulated over many

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years it's no uh not you know not giving

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away any confidences to say that this

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information has been held very closely

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for a long time in stove piped uh you

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know uh little pockets of of the defense

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establishment and Private Industry

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defense contractors

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so this is not information that's easily

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accessible it's heavily protected by you

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know a classified uh

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um you know restraints so

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um

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but you know uh how much did come out is

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interesting what he was able to say uh

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on the record and what the Pentagon

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approved that he say I mean as we say in

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the article he submitted

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uh the things he wanted to tell us uh to

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the pentagon's office of pre-publication

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review

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um and they approved it for you know

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passing on to us they didn't say it was

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true or not they said there's no reason

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to withhold this information it's not

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classified so that adds we we feel to

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his credibility about these accounts

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that he he knows

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of a craft that was uh retrieved

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a craft of non-human origin so

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um you know that's the best I can say

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well you know

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the thing I hear out there a lot and

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that I would like to ask you is

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wouldn't it seem as though if we were

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holding

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um

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whatever it it is uh wouldn't that

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information that we hold this type of

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Technology be highly classified I mean

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wouldn't it make sense that that type of

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information that he should not be able

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to even talk about it I mean how does

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that work well you know we have freedom

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of speech in this country and it it's

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not giving away uh details to an

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adversary it's not National Defense

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secrets to say we are holding a craft of

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of non-human origin

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um he's not giving you know

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technological details

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um

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about that so and that's what the

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Pentagon essentially agreed when they

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approved his comments for uh for release

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to us

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um and by the way you know we make this

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point at the end of the article this is

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information that really belongs to

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humanity I mean this is bigger than you

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know one country's uh you know defense

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establishment and by the way we're not

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the only we're not the only country with

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this information uh

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same things are going on in in Russia

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and China we understand and uh uh and

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and David grush in his statements to us

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spoke of this you know Cold War

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for retrieval of of these objects so you

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know we we know we're not the only we

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the U.S is not the only one doing this

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um but I don't think he's giving away a

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national security

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um you know Secret by saying we we're

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holding this material

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okay

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um

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if he was fed

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misinformation

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00:12:09,110 --> 00:12:07,019
well uh you know that's always the

281
00:12:11,150 --> 00:12:09,120
possibility that there's disinformation

282
00:12:15,410 --> 00:12:11,160
certainly the government has a long

283
00:12:18,590 --> 00:12:15,420
history of disinformation in this uh in

284
00:12:19,790 --> 00:12:18,600
this field of UAP UFOs

285
00:12:23,329 --> 00:12:19,800
um

286
00:12:25,550 --> 00:12:23,339
sad history in my opinion uh going back

287
00:12:29,329 --> 00:12:25,560
to you know World War II and and just

288
00:12:31,850 --> 00:12:29,339
after where they denied uh sightings and

289
00:12:33,769 --> 00:12:31,860
put out you know false information to

290
00:12:35,930 --> 00:12:33,779
confusing to stigmatize the subject

291
00:12:38,329 --> 00:12:35,940
because they couldn't deal with you know

292
00:12:40,730 --> 00:12:38,339
the facts that were coming out

293
00:12:43,790 --> 00:12:40,740
um so you know anything is possible but

294
00:12:45,650 --> 00:12:43,800
the fact that uh first of all Rush is is

295
00:12:47,990 --> 00:12:45,660
a very high level or was a very high

296
00:12:50,750 --> 00:12:48,000
level intelligence officer we give his

297
00:12:52,790 --> 00:12:50,760
bonafide's in the article uh he was with

298
00:12:55,009 --> 00:12:52,800
the National geospatial Intelligence

299
00:12:57,769 --> 00:12:55,019
Agency the national reconnaissance

300
00:13:01,970 --> 00:12:57,779
office he was a decorated soldier and

301
00:13:03,949 --> 00:13:01,980
officer in Afghanistan he he served on

302
00:13:06,829 --> 00:13:03,959
the UAP task force I mean he has a whole

303
00:13:09,290 --> 00:13:06,839
list of credentials and the people who

304
00:13:09,910 --> 00:13:09,300
vouch for him in our story

305
00:13:13,310 --> 00:13:09,920
um

306
00:13:15,590 --> 00:13:13,320
an army colonel who worked with him and

307
00:13:19,610 --> 00:13:15,600
somebody else from nasik the you know

308
00:13:23,150 --> 00:13:19,620
National Air space Intelligence Center

309
00:13:25,970 --> 00:13:23,160
um again on the record

310
00:13:27,949 --> 00:13:25,980
um it makes it more unlikely that he

311
00:13:30,350 --> 00:13:27,959
would that he and these other people

312
00:13:33,769 --> 00:13:30,360
would all have gotten together to

313
00:13:37,370 --> 00:13:33,779
promulgate a lie to feed to the public

314
00:13:38,530 --> 00:13:37,380
it I mean it it doesn't it doesn't make

315
00:13:40,870 --> 00:13:38,540
any sense

316
00:13:43,790 --> 00:13:40,880
in that

317
00:13:44,629 --> 00:13:43,800
interpretation well I you know you know

318
00:13:46,730 --> 00:13:44,639
I

319
00:13:48,829 --> 00:13:46,740
to that point

320
00:13:54,230 --> 00:13:51,949
it would be only speculation by them

321
00:13:57,170 --> 00:13:54,240
that he would actually come out and go

322
00:13:59,990 --> 00:13:57,180
forward with this complaint to begin

323
00:14:02,690 --> 00:14:00,000
with I mean because

324
00:14:05,329 --> 00:14:02,700
um if they were feeding that to him

325
00:14:08,030 --> 00:14:05,339
you know why would they know that he

326
00:14:09,530 --> 00:14:08,040
would complain do you understand you

327
00:14:12,110 --> 00:14:09,540
know that's exactly that's one of the

328
00:14:14,949 --> 00:14:12,120
one of the things I thought about do you

329
00:14:19,250 --> 00:14:14,959
now this is a spec speculative question

330
00:14:21,050 --> 00:14:19,260
do you believe that what he went to with

331
00:14:23,690 --> 00:14:21,060
Congress

332
00:14:25,490 --> 00:14:23,700
um classified documents that they they

333
00:14:26,990 --> 00:14:25,500
can't even talk about

334
00:14:28,389 --> 00:14:27,000
um that he presented with them do you

335
00:14:32,329 --> 00:14:28,399
believe

336
00:14:36,290 --> 00:14:32,339
that those are very evidential of this

337
00:14:37,790 --> 00:14:36,300
of these uh craft and and evidence well

338
00:14:39,050 --> 00:14:37,800
you know we don't know what he came to

339
00:14:41,030 --> 00:14:39,060
congress with

340
00:14:42,290 --> 00:14:41,040
um I mean that is strictly protected as

341
00:14:43,910 --> 00:14:42,300
a matter of fact

342
00:14:45,889 --> 00:14:43,920
um we can't even get comment from

343
00:14:48,290 --> 00:14:45,899
Congress because

344
00:14:50,449 --> 00:14:48,300
um as we say in the article members of

345
00:14:52,430 --> 00:14:50,459
Congress are prohibited from discussing

346
00:14:54,590 --> 00:14:52,440
the identities of whistleblowers who

347
00:14:57,170 --> 00:14:54,600
come forward oh yeah information to

348
00:14:59,269 --> 00:14:57,180
protect them I mean imagine if somebody

349
00:15:01,129 --> 00:14:59,279
were to come forward confidentially to

350
00:15:03,889 --> 00:15:01,139
Congress and their names would crop up

351
00:15:05,810 --> 00:15:03,899
in the paper because you know uh members

352
00:15:07,430 --> 00:15:05,820
of Congress are discussing it so it's

353
00:15:09,710 --> 00:15:07,440
understandable that that they wouldn't

354
00:15:11,210 --> 00:15:09,720
be talking about this

355
00:15:14,150 --> 00:15:11,220
um but

356
00:15:17,090 --> 00:15:14,160
um so uh you know so we don't know what

357
00:15:18,650 --> 00:15:17,100
what uh information he brought forth and

358
00:15:20,350 --> 00:15:18,660
what documents he may have turned over

359
00:15:23,449 --> 00:15:20,360
to them

360
00:15:25,970 --> 00:15:23,459
in your article you state that grush

361
00:15:28,250 --> 00:15:25,980
said that the craft recovery operations

362
00:15:30,949 --> 00:15:28,260
are ongoing at various levels of

363
00:15:33,889 --> 00:15:30,959
activity and that he knows the specific

364
00:15:38,269 --> 00:15:33,899
individuals current and former who are

365
00:15:42,230 --> 00:15:38,279
involved it seems to me that these

366
00:15:44,090 --> 00:15:42,240
individuals are key you know and do you

367
00:15:49,009 --> 00:15:44,100
expect there's a possibility of any

368
00:15:50,329 --> 00:15:49,019
other people coming forward as Witnesses

369
00:15:53,269 --> 00:15:50,339
yes

370
00:15:54,949 --> 00:15:53,279
um I mean we we uh note in the piece

371
00:15:56,930 --> 00:15:54,959
that he is not the only one who's come

372
00:15:59,930 --> 00:15:56,940
forward there are others who come

373
00:16:01,670 --> 00:15:59,940
forward whose names have not surfaced

374
00:16:03,889 --> 00:16:01,680
um and

375
00:16:06,650 --> 00:16:03,899
um I would imagine that people you know

376
00:16:08,769 --> 00:16:06,660
reading uh our account and the

377
00:16:13,670 --> 00:16:08,779
subsequent coverage

378
00:16:17,150 --> 00:16:13,680
might be impelled uh sort of inspired by

379
00:16:19,430 --> 00:16:17,160
his courage in coming forward by name

380
00:16:21,050 --> 00:16:19,440
that might encourage others to come

381
00:16:24,350 --> 00:16:21,060
forward you know this has a way of

382
00:16:27,110 --> 00:16:24,360
building an avalanche effect and one

383
00:16:28,790 --> 00:16:27,120
person sees it uh yeah it encourages

384
00:16:32,810 --> 00:16:28,800
others to come forward so I do expect

385
00:16:34,550 --> 00:16:32,820
there'll be more uh public Witnesses yes

386
00:16:35,870 --> 00:16:34,560
I had a conversation with Alejandro

387
00:16:38,210 --> 00:16:35,880
Rojas

388
00:16:40,790 --> 00:16:38,220
um on we did a show about this and that

389
00:16:42,769 --> 00:16:40,800
was one of the things that I believe too

390
00:16:45,410 --> 00:16:42,779
that it could be like the crack in the

391
00:16:47,449 --> 00:16:45,420
surface that you know the starts the

392
00:16:49,910 --> 00:16:47,459
ball rolling or you know I know that's a

393
00:16:53,930 --> 00:16:49,920
kind of a bad analogy but it could be

394
00:16:56,629 --> 00:16:53,940
you know uh some someone may it just may

395
00:16:59,090 --> 00:16:56,639
cause an avalanche of well you know I'm

396
00:17:01,310 --> 00:16:59,100
glad you pointed that out on because you

397
00:17:05,449 --> 00:17:01,320
know when people ask me about where we

398
00:17:07,789 --> 00:17:05,459
are in this whole uh you know field

399
00:17:10,189 --> 00:17:07,799
um people liked some people like to

400
00:17:11,929 --> 00:17:10,199
focus on what's you know what's still

401
00:17:14,150 --> 00:17:11,939
missing and you know what what we're

402
00:17:17,150 --> 00:17:14,160
lacking and how far we are from the goal

403
00:17:19,069 --> 00:17:17,160
of disclosure this magical capital D

404
00:17:21,710 --> 00:17:19,079
thing that you know some people are

405
00:17:24,890 --> 00:17:21,720
waiting for uh but I I do like to point

406
00:17:27,590 --> 00:17:24,900
out that we have come a long way since

407
00:17:29,750 --> 00:17:27,600
the days of 2017 and earlier when our

408
00:17:32,210 --> 00:17:29,760
first article appeared

409
00:17:34,190 --> 00:17:32,220
um when uh before the government

410
00:17:36,650 --> 00:17:34,200
acknowledged the Pentagon acknowledged

411
00:17:39,529 --> 00:17:36,660
officially that these objects are real

412
00:17:43,310 --> 00:17:39,539
many of them not all of them but

413
00:17:45,770 --> 00:17:43,320
that there's a legitimate reason to uh

414
00:17:47,750 --> 00:17:45,780
to believe or to understand that this is

415
00:17:49,490 --> 00:17:47,760
a real phenomenon these are not

416
00:17:50,990 --> 00:17:49,500
hallucinations they're not hoaxes

417
00:17:53,150 --> 00:17:51,000
they're not Fabrications they're not

418
00:17:54,529 --> 00:17:53,160
misunderstandings it's not atmospheric

419
00:17:57,110 --> 00:17:54,539
effects

420
00:18:00,950 --> 00:17:57,120
um there there are cases uh certainly of

421
00:18:04,190 --> 00:18:00,960
things being mistaken for for UFO for

422
00:18:07,549 --> 00:18:04,200
UAP objects but let's say there's uh

423
00:18:09,830 --> 00:18:07,559
quite a body of evidence accumulating

424
00:18:11,870 --> 00:18:09,840
that these things are real that Navy

425
00:18:14,450 --> 00:18:11,880
Pilots have encountered them they've

426
00:18:17,029 --> 00:18:14,460
taken images of them uh there's thermal

427
00:18:19,130 --> 00:18:17,039
imaging flear images there's photographs

428
00:18:23,090 --> 00:18:19,140
there's eye eyewitness accounts by

429
00:18:25,190 --> 00:18:23,100
highly decorated Pilots like Dave fraver

430
00:18:26,750 --> 00:18:25,200
um so the government basically said in

431
00:18:28,909 --> 00:18:26,760
in its last

432
00:18:31,549 --> 00:18:28,919
um you know big report and the one

433
00:18:34,430 --> 00:18:31,559
before that the UAP report

434
00:18:36,950 --> 00:18:34,440
um to Congress that these objects are

435
00:18:38,630 --> 00:18:36,960
real let's let's admit that okay that

436
00:18:40,789 --> 00:18:38,640
there's a phenomenon that we don't know

437
00:18:42,650 --> 00:18:40,799
what they are we don't know where they

438
00:18:44,690 --> 00:18:42,660
come from why they're here who's behind

439
00:18:48,049 --> 00:18:44,700
the wheel if anything what intelligence

440
00:18:50,690 --> 00:18:48,059
you know is is sponsoring or supporting

441
00:18:54,230 --> 00:18:50,700
them but at least

442
00:18:56,750 --> 00:18:54,240
um these things physically exist so

443
00:18:58,430 --> 00:18:56,760
that's that's a step that's a big leap

444
00:19:01,549 --> 00:18:58,440
from where we were

445
00:19:03,049 --> 00:19:01,559
right I would say one of the number one

446
00:19:06,529 --> 00:19:03,059
things that people have been sending me

447
00:19:09,289 --> 00:19:06,539
uh you know comments and emails on is uh

448
00:19:13,850 --> 00:19:09,299
one I don't have a very good record of

449
00:19:16,490 --> 00:19:13,860
my faith in uh Bob Lazar but anyway they

450
00:19:18,650 --> 00:19:16,500
uh they have been saying you know well

451
00:19:22,970 --> 00:19:18,660
isn't this proof that Bob is awesome

452
00:19:24,950 --> 00:19:22,980
what he saw and I I say no and um I

453
00:19:27,650 --> 00:19:24,960
guess I'll take your what's your opinion

454
00:19:30,230 --> 00:19:27,660
on that well you know I I really don't

455
00:19:31,130 --> 00:19:30,240
have an opinion on Bob Lazar I've seen

456
00:19:33,710 --> 00:19:31,140
you know

457
00:19:37,070 --> 00:19:33,720
stories about him I have no reason to

458
00:19:39,409 --> 00:19:37,080
trust or distrust his account but what

459
00:19:41,330 --> 00:19:39,419
we like to say Leslie and I is that

460
00:19:44,150 --> 00:19:41,340
we've taken this to another level we

461
00:19:46,390 --> 00:19:44,160
have a named High Intelligence or former

462
00:19:49,250 --> 00:19:46,400
High Intelligence officer who had

463
00:19:50,770 --> 00:19:49,260
unparalleled access you know in in these

464
00:19:54,590 --> 00:19:50,780
corners of

465
00:19:56,990 --> 00:19:54,600
the defense establishment where these

466
00:19:59,810 --> 00:19:57,000
things were being discussed and

467
00:20:02,330 --> 00:19:59,820
investigated and he comes forward on the

468
00:20:04,490 --> 00:20:02,340
record and says this this and this now

469
00:20:07,669 --> 00:20:04,500
and he's not saying that he put his

470
00:20:09,409 --> 00:20:07,679
hands on a craft so maybe that goes to

471
00:20:12,470 --> 00:20:09,419
his credibility also that he's not

472
00:20:14,930 --> 00:20:12,480
claiming things that maybe go beyond his

473
00:20:17,930 --> 00:20:14,940
his knowledge but he is saying again on

474
00:20:20,870 --> 00:20:17,940
the record with with uh with documents

475
00:20:24,590 --> 00:20:20,880
backing up his access

476
00:20:26,990 --> 00:20:24,600
um that he knows that the government has

477
00:20:30,289 --> 00:20:27,000
retrieved intact and partial intact

478
00:20:33,770 --> 00:20:30,299
craft of non-human origin and I think

479
00:20:36,350 --> 00:20:33,780
that takes the the um the information A

480
00:20:39,890 --> 00:20:36,360
Step Above Bob Lazar

481
00:20:41,690 --> 00:20:39,900
um because of Russia's High position in

482
00:20:43,610 --> 00:20:41,700
the defense establishment high official

483
00:20:47,029 --> 00:20:43,620
position which other people have

484
00:20:49,010 --> 00:20:47,039
corroborated so that's all I can say

485
00:20:51,710 --> 00:20:49,020
about that I'm not denigrating anybody

486
00:20:53,330 --> 00:20:51,720
else's you know accounts and I mean a

487
00:20:55,789 --> 00:20:53,340
lot of accounts have come up you know

488
00:20:58,669 --> 00:20:55,799
been put forward over the years people

489
00:21:01,310 --> 00:20:58,679
have said a lot of things

490
00:21:03,770 --> 00:21:01,320
um the the problem as you highlighted of

491
00:21:06,409 --> 00:21:03,780
course is is verifying it and as close

492
00:21:09,950 --> 00:21:06,419
you know short of producing a craft

493
00:21:11,630 --> 00:21:09,960
dropping it into a hearing room in

494
00:21:13,250 --> 00:21:11,640
Congress which I guess would maybe

495
00:21:15,230 --> 00:21:13,260
wouldn't convince everybody there'd

496
00:21:18,230 --> 00:21:15,240
still be some Skeptics out there oh sure

497
00:21:19,610 --> 00:21:18,240
that we have to deal with what we can

498
00:21:22,010 --> 00:21:19,620
deal with and there are people coming

499
00:21:23,630 --> 00:21:22,020
forward with saying these things so we

500
00:21:26,570 --> 00:21:23,640
have to evaluate that

501
00:21:28,070 --> 00:21:26,580
some people have sent nicely sent me uh

502
00:21:29,870 --> 00:21:28,080
questions for you on Twitter and I want

503
00:21:32,630 --> 00:21:29,880
to thank you for that out there

504
00:21:36,890 --> 00:21:32,640
um you know the Wilson document I've

505
00:21:38,390 --> 00:21:36,900
been on the fence about that myself for

506
00:21:41,570 --> 00:21:38,400
the last several years that that has

507
00:21:45,110 --> 00:21:41,580
been talked about is is there any type

508
00:21:46,909 --> 00:21:45,120
of tie-in that you're aware of

509
00:21:48,950 --> 00:21:46,919
are you familiar with the Wilson die

510
00:21:50,750 --> 00:21:48,960
yeah it come up in one of the

511
00:21:52,490 --> 00:21:50,760
Congressional hearings to Great surprise

512
00:21:54,169 --> 00:21:52,500
right yes

513
00:21:56,990 --> 00:21:54,179
you know I'm really not comfortable

514
00:21:59,630 --> 00:21:57,000
talking about that at uh Martin because

515
00:22:03,289 --> 00:21:59,640
yeah all right it's still

516
00:22:05,690 --> 00:22:03,299
um it's a it's a uh it's a very

517
00:22:08,450 --> 00:22:05,700
complicated story it hasn't been you

518
00:22:11,450 --> 00:22:08,460
know the the document in question hasn't

519
00:22:13,270 --> 00:22:11,460
been sufficiently vetted in terms of at

520
00:22:16,789 --> 00:22:13,280
least not on the record in terms of

521
00:22:18,350 --> 00:22:16,799
sources that will authenticate it uh

522
00:22:20,270 --> 00:22:18,360
there's a lot of claims in that document

523
00:22:21,710 --> 00:22:20,280
I mean the problem in this field as you

524
00:22:24,110 --> 00:22:21,720
know is that there's a lot of

525
00:22:26,090 --> 00:22:24,120
information out there

526
00:22:27,710 --> 00:22:26,100
um some of it is disinformation by the

527
00:22:29,930 --> 00:22:27,720
way from the government going back to

528
00:22:32,210 --> 00:22:29,940
the 50s which is really

529
00:22:33,649 --> 00:22:32,220
um you know muddles the muddies the

530
00:22:35,570 --> 00:22:33,659
waters considerably because the

531
00:22:38,149 --> 00:22:35,580
government put out

532
00:22:41,750 --> 00:22:38,159
um uh deliberately false information to

533
00:22:44,990 --> 00:22:41,760
confuse people uh over the years so

534
00:22:46,549 --> 00:22:45,000
um the trick is uh you know for someone

535
00:22:48,770 --> 00:22:46,559
like me with trained in classical

536
00:22:50,510 --> 00:22:48,780
journalism at the New York Times is how

537
00:22:53,870 --> 00:22:50,520
do you verify this information before

538
00:22:55,130 --> 00:22:53,880
you exactly put it out so it's it's very

539
00:22:58,310 --> 00:22:55,140
difficult there's a lot of you know

540
00:23:01,370 --> 00:22:58,320
documents like that and um uh they're

541
00:23:03,830 --> 00:23:01,380
very tricky to handle and Eric Davis

542
00:23:05,750 --> 00:23:03,840
will not has not commented as far as I

543
00:23:07,789 --> 00:23:05,760
know one way or the other on this whole

544
00:23:09,350 --> 00:23:07,799
thing and that that would that would

545
00:23:11,930 --> 00:23:09,360
definitely make a difference

546
00:23:14,330 --> 00:23:11,940
um here's another one here could Ralph

547
00:23:17,110 --> 00:23:14,340
expand on uh and talk about the

548
00:23:20,029 --> 00:23:17,120
whistleblowers legal representation

549
00:23:22,730 --> 00:23:20,039
and did they look into the veracity of

550
00:23:24,890 --> 00:23:22,740
the allegations also does Ralph expect

551
00:23:27,470 --> 00:23:24,900
anyone within the program to eventually

552
00:23:29,350 --> 00:23:27,480
come forward I do believe we we sort of

553
00:23:32,029 --> 00:23:29,360
uh addressed that yeah

554
00:23:34,610 --> 00:23:32,039
you know Dave grush's courage in coming

555
00:23:36,950 --> 00:23:34,620
forward uh we know there are people on

556
00:23:38,810 --> 00:23:36,960
the fence uh there about coming forward

557
00:23:41,210 --> 00:23:38,820
we've talked to some of them

558
00:23:43,610 --> 00:23:41,220
um and uh you know we haven't been able

559
00:23:44,930 --> 00:23:43,620
to report uh their identities or

560
00:23:47,450 --> 00:23:44,940
comments because they haven't come

561
00:23:49,730 --> 00:23:47,460
forward yet but

562
00:23:52,850 --> 00:23:49,740
um so the answer to the second part of

563
00:23:56,149 --> 00:23:52,860
that is is yes I think uh

564
00:23:57,529 --> 00:23:56,159
um we can expect more people to come

565
00:23:59,390 --> 00:23:57,539
forward

566
00:24:02,090 --> 00:23:59,400
um and remind me again Martin the first

567
00:24:03,470 --> 00:24:02,100
part of that question yes uh let me go

568
00:24:04,970 --> 00:24:03,480
back to it

569
00:24:07,130 --> 00:24:04,980
um could you expand on the legal

570
00:24:10,310 --> 00:24:07,140
representation yes

571
00:24:11,470 --> 00:24:10,320
um Charles McCullough is a former

572
00:24:13,789 --> 00:24:11,480
um

573
00:24:15,950 --> 00:24:13,799
intelligence Community Inspector General

574
00:24:17,330 --> 00:24:15,960
he was the first one actually the

575
00:24:18,710 --> 00:24:17,340
intelligence Community which is

576
00:24:20,990 --> 00:24:18,720
something I didn't really know until I

577
00:24:24,230 --> 00:24:21,000
started doing this reporting

578
00:24:28,130 --> 00:24:24,240
um has an inspector General

579
00:24:31,070 --> 00:24:28,140
um just to monitor you know legal

580
00:24:33,590 --> 00:24:31,080
requirements such as the Whistleblower

581
00:24:37,549 --> 00:24:33,600
statute which President Biden signed

582
00:24:39,649 --> 00:24:37,559
into law in December uh last year which

583
00:24:41,510 --> 00:24:39,659
protects whistleblowers against just the

584
00:24:43,730 --> 00:24:41,520
kind of retaliation that David grush

585
00:24:45,590 --> 00:24:43,740
claimed he was subjected to he has been

586
00:24:47,090 --> 00:24:45,600
subjected to

587
00:24:47,870 --> 00:24:47,100
um so

588
00:24:50,210 --> 00:24:47,880
um

589
00:24:52,250 --> 00:24:50,220
so there's this inspected General who

590
00:24:54,649 --> 00:24:52,260
handles you know legal matters like this

591
00:24:57,409 --> 00:24:54,659
and David grush's Attorney Charles

592
00:24:59,210 --> 00:24:57,419
McCullough was the first Inspector

593
00:25:03,230 --> 00:24:59,220
General of the intelligence Community he

594
00:25:05,590 --> 00:25:03,240
left in 2017 and joined a law firm so

595
00:25:07,789 --> 00:25:05,600
he's very very well plugged in

596
00:25:10,730 --> 00:25:07,799
McCullough is

597
00:25:14,029 --> 00:25:10,740
um and

598
00:25:15,710 --> 00:25:14,039
um so he he understands you know the the

599
00:25:17,029 --> 00:25:15,720
intelligence establishment and he's

600
00:25:19,730 --> 00:25:17,039
representing

601
00:25:22,730 --> 00:25:19,740
garage now I imagine he wouldn't do that

602
00:25:25,490 --> 00:25:22,740
if he had doubts about Russia's veracity

603
00:25:27,830 --> 00:25:25,500
or Integrity but

604
00:25:29,450 --> 00:25:27,840
um we we use that in the story to show

605
00:25:31,610 --> 00:25:29,460
that he not only has high level

606
00:25:34,669 --> 00:25:31,620
representation but somebody who has a

607
00:25:38,149 --> 00:25:34,679
history of involvement at the highest

608
00:25:40,610 --> 00:25:38,159
levels of the subject

609
00:25:43,070 --> 00:25:40,620
um did he give you any type of idea of

610
00:25:45,710 --> 00:25:43,080
is he being was he being hassled or

611
00:25:47,390 --> 00:25:45,720
could he not even even talk about it he

612
00:25:48,950 --> 00:25:47,400
did talk about it and we alluded to it

613
00:25:50,269 --> 00:25:48,960
in the article we don't go into a lot of

614
00:25:51,830 --> 00:25:50,279
details because I don't think it would

615
00:25:54,950 --> 00:25:51,840
be helpful

616
00:25:57,769 --> 00:25:54,960
um uh but he was definitely

617
00:26:00,890 --> 00:25:57,779
um subject to harassment he lost uh

618
00:26:02,510 --> 00:26:00,900
access to some of the uh programs he was

619
00:26:05,330 --> 00:26:02,520
working for

620
00:26:07,010 --> 00:26:05,340
um when he started coming forward he has

621
00:26:09,049 --> 00:26:07,020
alleged this in an official Complaint

622
00:26:12,289 --> 00:26:09,059
the Inspector General of the

623
00:26:14,149 --> 00:26:12,299
intelligence Community found his

624
00:26:14,750 --> 00:26:14,159
um complaint

625
00:26:17,149 --> 00:26:14,760
um

626
00:26:19,310 --> 00:26:17,159
urgent and credible was the exact phrase

627
00:26:20,930 --> 00:26:19,320
and it was forwarded to the highest

628
00:26:25,490 --> 00:26:20,940
levels of the defense establishment

629
00:26:28,070 --> 00:26:25,500
Avril Haynes and others in the CIA so

630
00:26:30,230 --> 00:26:28,080
um it was disseminated widely in the

631
00:26:32,750 --> 00:26:30,240
government that he he was making this

632
00:26:34,970 --> 00:26:32,760
complaint

633
00:26:37,190 --> 00:26:34,980
um and it's being adjudicated now I mean

634
00:26:37,789 --> 00:26:37,200
we don't have a result yet

635
00:26:41,149 --> 00:26:37,799
um

636
00:26:44,870 --> 00:26:41,159
uh that process is going forward but he

637
00:26:47,149 --> 00:26:44,880
uh he has made those uh com complaints

638
00:26:49,070 --> 00:26:47,159
those charges officially uh we have

639
00:26:51,590 --> 00:26:49,080
copies of what can be public about it

640
00:26:54,049 --> 00:26:51,600
there's a classified version of his

641
00:26:56,330 --> 00:26:54,059
complaint that we don't have but we have

642
00:26:57,769 --> 00:26:56,340
enough to show exactly what he

643
00:27:00,289 --> 00:26:57,779
complained of that he was subject to

644
00:27:03,110 --> 00:27:00,299
harassment he lost access and it was

645
00:27:05,390 --> 00:27:03,120
some kind of as he as he complained the

646
00:27:08,510 --> 00:27:05,400
kind of retaliation for coming forward

647
00:27:11,390 --> 00:27:08,520
which is illegal under the whistleblow a

648
00:27:13,549 --> 00:27:11,400
statute he should not be retaliated

649
00:27:15,409 --> 00:27:13,559
against for coming forward through the

650
00:27:17,750 --> 00:27:15,419
proper channels is it not coming forward

651
00:27:20,930 --> 00:27:17,760
to the media this is coming forward to

652
00:27:23,149 --> 00:27:20,940
the proper defense channels uh and

653
00:27:25,310 --> 00:27:23,159
Congress with this information so he did

654
00:27:27,890 --> 00:27:25,320
according to his account exactly what he

655
00:27:30,110 --> 00:27:27,900
was allowed to do or encouraged to do by

656
00:27:32,750 --> 00:27:30,120
The Whistleblower statute and yet

657
00:27:36,830 --> 00:27:32,760
suffered these reprisals

658
00:27:39,110 --> 00:27:36,840
now how is how is this was this being

659
00:27:41,390 --> 00:27:39,120
hidden

660
00:27:43,909 --> 00:27:41,400
um from oversight I guess that's the

661
00:27:46,010 --> 00:27:43,919
best way to put it is it PRI and private

662
00:27:48,370 --> 00:27:46,020
programs or something in some way that

663
00:27:51,710 --> 00:27:48,380
it can you know duck the oversight

664
00:27:53,990 --> 00:27:51,720
Congressional oversight yes he said that

665
00:27:55,970 --> 00:27:54,000
um that there are requirements uh I mean

666
00:27:58,190 --> 00:27:55,980
Congress is you know has ultimate

667
00:28:00,590 --> 00:27:58,200
oversight overspending of taxpayers

668
00:28:03,710 --> 00:28:00,600
money and and a lot of money is being

669
00:28:06,289 --> 00:28:03,720
spent in these secret programs so uh to

670
00:28:09,830 --> 00:28:06,299
withhel to withhold information from the

671
00:28:11,930 --> 00:28:09,840
proper Congressional uh channels

672
00:28:13,430 --> 00:28:11,940
um is illegal according to grush's

673
00:28:15,110 --> 00:28:13,440
complaint

674
00:28:19,250 --> 00:28:15,120
um and

675
00:28:21,950 --> 00:28:19,260
um uh he he makes a reference to

676
00:28:24,409 --> 00:28:21,960
um some Contracting procedures again to

677
00:28:27,490 --> 00:28:24,419
spend the people's money the government

678
00:28:31,130 --> 00:28:27,500
has to go through you know certain

679
00:28:34,310 --> 00:28:31,140
steps uh to protect against fraud and

680
00:28:36,110 --> 00:28:34,320
waste and according to grush in in his

681
00:28:38,930 --> 00:28:36,120
complaint the public part of his

682
00:28:42,169 --> 00:28:38,940
complaint which is the only part we saw

683
00:28:45,110 --> 00:28:42,179
um uh these procedures were not

684
00:28:48,110 --> 00:28:45,120
um followed in in some cases

685
00:28:50,690 --> 00:28:48,120
um with regards to to these programs now

686
00:28:53,090 --> 00:28:50,700
these programs are super secret the

687
00:28:54,890 --> 00:28:53,100
craft recovery programs from from what

688
00:28:56,690 --> 00:28:54,900
he what he says and what we understand

689
00:28:58,850 --> 00:28:56,700
from our reporting

690
00:29:03,289 --> 00:28:58,860
um they're stove piped in that there's

691
00:29:06,649 --> 00:29:03,299
no one group of people or or agency that

692
00:29:11,810 --> 00:29:06,659
has authority over over everything

693
00:29:15,230 --> 00:29:11,820
um they're held in very uh you know uh

694
00:29:17,450 --> 00:29:15,240
protected corners of the uh of the

695
00:29:20,389 --> 00:29:17,460
Pentagon through special access programs

696
00:29:22,549 --> 00:29:20,399
controlled access programs there's a

697
00:29:24,110 --> 00:29:22,559
whole mechanism and I mean the

698
00:29:25,730 --> 00:29:24,120
government has legitimate Secrets let's

699
00:29:27,889 --> 00:29:25,740
let's say that

700
00:29:29,330 --> 00:29:27,899
um you know for defense purposes so the

701
00:29:32,630 --> 00:29:29,340
the government has to keep certain

702
00:29:37,010 --> 00:29:32,640
secrets we understand that and they are

703
00:29:39,110 --> 00:29:37,020
squirreled away in these uh corners of

704
00:29:39,909 --> 00:29:39,120
of the Pentagon

705
00:29:47,450 --> 00:29:39,919
um

706
00:29:49,430 --> 00:29:47,460
kept and also we understand by some

707
00:29:51,289 --> 00:29:49,440
private contractors defense contractors

708
00:29:53,630 --> 00:29:51,299
who are not amenable to Freedom of

709
00:29:55,490 --> 00:29:53,640
Information requests so if you submit a

710
00:29:57,590 --> 00:29:55,500
foia to Congress you're a reporter and

711
00:30:00,470 --> 00:29:57,600
you and you say not the Congress you're

712
00:30:01,850 --> 00:30:00,480
foia you submit to the uh the Pentagon

713
00:30:05,330 --> 00:30:01,860
the defense department say I want

714
00:30:07,669 --> 00:30:05,340
information about this the Pentagon has

715
00:30:09,350 --> 00:30:07,679
a mechanism for dealing weather dealing

716
00:30:11,810 --> 00:30:09,360
with whether this information can be

717
00:30:14,570 --> 00:30:11,820
properly disclosed to the public to a

718
00:30:17,029 --> 00:30:14,580
reporter for public dissemination well

719
00:30:18,950 --> 00:30:17,039
that doesn't exist with private defense

720
00:30:20,990 --> 00:30:18,960
contractors so if they are running some

721
00:30:23,990 --> 00:30:21,000
of these programs

722
00:30:26,990 --> 00:30:24,000
um the foia process does not extend to

723
00:30:29,950 --> 00:30:27,000
them and that's been a hang up for a

724
00:30:33,049 --> 00:30:29,960
long time we cannot get information

725
00:30:35,570 --> 00:30:33,059
from from the private defense community

726
00:30:37,690 --> 00:30:35,580
on on how much they know about these

727
00:30:39,950 --> 00:30:37,700
these programs

728
00:30:43,250 --> 00:30:39,960
here's a statement that is in your

729
00:30:45,409 --> 00:30:43,260
articles several current members of the

730
00:30:46,630 --> 00:30:45,419
recovery program spoke to the inspector

731
00:30:49,490 --> 00:30:46,640
General's office

732
00:30:51,710 --> 00:30:49,500
and corroborated the information that

733
00:30:54,590 --> 00:30:51,720
grush had provided for the classified

734
00:30:57,409 --> 00:30:54,600
complaint how do we know that

735
00:30:59,090 --> 00:30:57,419
uh well you know that from our reporting

736
00:31:01,909 --> 00:30:59,100
um we you know look

737
00:31:04,250 --> 00:31:01,919
um we talked to a lot of people for our

738
00:31:06,769 --> 00:31:04,260
reporting it is like an iceberg to

739
00:31:09,049 --> 00:31:06,779
choose an old tired image that you know

740
00:31:12,350 --> 00:31:09,059
that the top part is what what we put

741
00:31:15,289 --> 00:31:12,360
out in you know in our story but it's

742
00:31:16,490 --> 00:31:15,299
based on a lot of reporting uh that goes

743
00:31:18,289 --> 00:31:16,500
into it

744
00:31:20,210 --> 00:31:18,299
um and then we choose from that

745
00:31:22,070 --> 00:31:20,220
reporting what what we can put on the

746
00:31:25,250 --> 00:31:22,080
record who will stand behind the

747
00:31:28,610 --> 00:31:25,260
statements uh what documents we can uh

748
00:31:30,470 --> 00:31:28,620
you know uh on Earth to corroborate the

749
00:31:32,810 --> 00:31:30,480
statements we want to make

750
00:31:36,250 --> 00:31:32,820
um so there's a lot of reporting that

751
00:31:38,810 --> 00:31:36,260
goes into a story that that you know

752
00:31:41,570 --> 00:31:38,820
isn't part of the story itself because

753
00:31:43,850 --> 00:31:41,580
it's the background for the story uh I

754
00:31:45,710 --> 00:31:43,860
mean that should be clear so our

755
00:31:46,789 --> 00:31:45,720
reporting confirmed that there were

756
00:31:48,409 --> 00:31:46,799
others

757
00:31:51,470 --> 00:31:48,419
um who

758
00:31:53,029 --> 00:31:51,480
um were prepared to corroborate grisha's

759
00:31:54,769 --> 00:31:53,039
information and in some cases have

760
00:31:56,930 --> 00:31:54,779
already spoken to Congress

761
00:31:57,889 --> 00:31:56,940
okay all right

762
00:31:59,510 --> 00:31:57,899
um

763
00:32:03,409 --> 00:31:59,520
let's see was the article that you

764
00:32:05,810 --> 00:32:03,419
published part one of a multi-series no

765
00:32:07,909 --> 00:32:05,820
we didn't say that and uh that would be

766
00:32:10,010 --> 00:32:07,919
jumping the gun it's not a series it's a

767
00:32:11,510 --> 00:32:10,020
freestanding article you know Leslie and

768
00:32:14,870 --> 00:32:11,520
I have been reporting on this together

769
00:32:17,149 --> 00:32:14,880
since at least 2017 when with you know

770
00:32:19,490 --> 00:32:17,159
hello we put out the big story in the

771
00:32:21,049 --> 00:32:19,500
New York Times we continue to report on

772
00:32:22,610 --> 00:32:21,059
this all the time we wrote A Few you

773
00:32:23,930 --> 00:32:22,620
know number of stories since then in the

774
00:32:25,909 --> 00:32:23,940
New York Times

775
00:32:28,070 --> 00:32:25,919
um both of us had published separately

776
00:32:30,049 --> 00:32:28,080
with the the debrief that published our

777
00:32:31,250 --> 00:32:30,059
latest article we're talking about this

778
00:32:33,889 --> 00:32:31,260
all the time

779
00:32:36,169 --> 00:32:33,899
um how to you know gather more

780
00:32:38,810 --> 00:32:36,179
information stories come to us all the

781
00:32:40,490 --> 00:32:38,820
time uh we talk about what what might

782
00:32:43,909 --> 00:32:40,500
make a good story what would Advance

783
00:32:46,490 --> 00:32:43,919
this you know uh whole field so

784
00:32:49,010 --> 00:32:46,500
um we continue to report but it's this

785
00:32:50,389 --> 00:32:49,020
article was not the beginning of a of a

786
00:32:54,529 --> 00:32:50,399
multi-pot series

787
00:32:55,970 --> 00:32:54,539
okay and I guess I'd like to ask you

788
00:32:57,350 --> 00:32:55,980
right now

789
00:33:01,730 --> 00:32:57,360
um you know since it's come out we

790
00:33:04,789 --> 00:33:01,740
people it's gone like a wildfire and is

791
00:33:07,610 --> 00:33:04,799
there something that you would like to

792
00:33:09,470 --> 00:33:07,620
um nip in the bud that's out there that

793
00:33:11,149 --> 00:33:09,480
people are claiming I mean there's all

794
00:33:13,370 --> 00:33:11,159
kinds of claims but is there anything

795
00:33:15,110 --> 00:33:13,380
you can think of right off the top that

796
00:33:15,830 --> 00:33:15,120
you'd like to nip in the Box well you

797
00:33:16,970 --> 00:33:15,840
know

798
00:33:18,850 --> 00:33:16,980
um you're asking me to be a witness

799
00:33:21,169 --> 00:33:18,860
against myself

800
00:33:22,909 --> 00:33:21,179
but I'll tell you that one other thing

801
00:33:26,750 --> 00:33:22,919
is that

802
00:33:30,409 --> 00:33:26,760
um uh you know people ask is this you

803
00:33:33,169 --> 00:33:30,419
know as a a campaign I mean is this some

804
00:33:34,730 --> 00:33:33,179
uh program to dribble out this

805
00:33:36,350 --> 00:33:34,740
information in a way the government

806
00:33:39,370 --> 00:33:36,360
wants

807
00:33:43,549 --> 00:33:39,380
um and I I've said before and I can

808
00:33:45,470 --> 00:33:43,559
reiterate that this is not anything that

809
00:33:48,230 --> 00:33:45,480
was spoon fed to us as part of any

810
00:33:50,090 --> 00:33:48,240
campaign we had to dig it out very with

811
00:33:52,310 --> 00:33:50,100
great difficulty we had to convince

812
00:33:54,409 --> 00:33:52,320
sources to go on the record we had to

813
00:33:56,750 --> 00:33:54,419
assemble documentation this wasn't

814
00:33:59,029 --> 00:33:56,760
handed to us for any nefarious purpose

815
00:34:00,950 --> 00:33:59,039
after a long career at the New York

816
00:34:02,990 --> 00:34:00,960
Times I can tell you I do not believe in

817
00:34:05,450 --> 00:34:03,000
these conspiracy theories too many

818
00:34:08,510 --> 00:34:05,460
people would have had to be in

819
00:34:10,490 --> 00:34:08,520
coordination to Mastermind this as some

820
00:34:13,129 --> 00:34:10,500
kind of conspiracy to you know to

821
00:34:14,510 --> 00:34:13,139
dribble out a story in a in a certain

822
00:34:19,430 --> 00:34:14,520
way

823
00:34:21,470 --> 00:34:19,440
the real world you know so so that's one

824
00:34:22,930 --> 00:34:21,480
thing I can say

825
00:34:27,169 --> 00:34:22,940
um also

826
00:34:29,149 --> 00:34:27,179
you know know I've been at this uh in

827
00:34:30,109 --> 00:34:29,159
this subject for a while now Martin and

828
00:34:33,889 --> 00:34:30,119
yeah

829
00:34:36,230 --> 00:34:33,899
um I must say that I uh I'm no closer to

830
00:34:38,510 --> 00:34:36,240
to answers about the essential mystery

831
00:34:40,790 --> 00:34:38,520
of this thing as I was in the beginning

832
00:34:42,889 --> 00:34:40,800
I mean we don't know what these objects

833
00:34:45,589 --> 00:34:42,899
are we don't know you know what

834
00:34:48,470 --> 00:34:45,599
dimension some of these events that

835
00:34:50,270 --> 00:34:48,480
people describe are unfolding in we we

836
00:34:52,970 --> 00:34:50,280
think we understand the world of physics

837
00:34:54,829 --> 00:34:52,980
but the world of physics keeps changing

838
00:34:57,010 --> 00:34:54,839
there are new discoveries of you know

839
00:34:59,750 --> 00:34:57,020
the elemental particles of Nature and

840
00:35:01,370 --> 00:34:59,760
very complicated things How the Universe

841
00:35:04,849 --> 00:35:01,380
began

842
00:35:07,190 --> 00:35:04,859
um time warps String Theory you know all

843
00:35:09,349 --> 00:35:07,200
these very complicated

844
00:35:11,390 --> 00:35:09,359
um Concepts and physics that you know

845
00:35:13,970 --> 00:35:11,400
continue to change

846
00:35:15,349 --> 00:35:13,980
um or evolve

847
00:35:20,450 --> 00:35:15,359
um and

848
00:35:23,210 --> 00:35:20,460
know what are these objects where do

849
00:35:25,490 --> 00:35:23,220
they come from why are they here

850
00:35:27,170 --> 00:35:25,500
um why do some people encounter them and

851
00:35:29,630 --> 00:35:27,180
not other people why do two people

852
00:35:31,010 --> 00:35:29,640
standing together one sees it and one

853
00:35:33,170 --> 00:35:31,020
doesn't

854
00:35:34,849 --> 00:35:33,180
um why are the the memory of it

855
00:35:36,829 --> 00:35:34,859
sometimes

856
00:35:38,329 --> 00:35:36,839
um apparently tampered with or

857
00:35:40,790 --> 00:35:38,339
interfered with so people can't remember

858
00:35:43,010 --> 00:35:40,800
certain things I mean there's a lot of

859
00:35:46,130 --> 00:35:43,020
questions mostly questions not answers

860
00:35:48,410 --> 00:35:46,140
right so you know what I like to say is

861
00:35:50,270 --> 00:35:48,420
that this is a mystery and you know I I

862
00:35:52,550 --> 00:35:50,280
think I mentioned to you earlier that my

863
00:35:55,730 --> 00:35:52,560
wife and I wrote a children's book that

864
00:35:58,550 --> 00:35:55,740
just came out on oh yeah UFOs and we

865
00:36:01,250 --> 00:35:58,560
subtitle it mysteries in the sky

866
00:36:02,810 --> 00:36:01,260
um because it is a mystery and I think

867
00:36:04,670 --> 00:36:02,820
that's the the thing you have to really

868
00:36:07,250 --> 00:36:04,680
start and end with that we don't have

869
00:36:10,670 --> 00:36:07,260
the answers we have questions but at

870
00:36:13,089 --> 00:36:10,680
least let's acknowledge the fact that

871
00:36:16,490 --> 00:36:13,099
these there's the book Thank you

872
00:36:18,589 --> 00:36:16,500
that these questions alleged legitimate

873
00:36:21,230 --> 00:36:18,599
and real

874
00:36:24,589 --> 00:36:21,240
um they really are Mysteries and it's

875
00:36:27,349 --> 00:36:24,599
not a hoax it's not a fabrication

876
00:36:29,390 --> 00:36:27,359
um some people are mistaken sometimes

877
00:36:31,990 --> 00:36:29,400
you know they mistake a you know a

878
00:36:35,810 --> 00:36:32,000
satellite or a plane or a bird or

879
00:36:36,589 --> 00:36:35,820
atmospheric effect for a UFO but

880
00:36:39,349 --> 00:36:36,599
um

881
00:36:41,750 --> 00:36:39,359
but in you know in the larger sense

882
00:36:43,430 --> 00:36:41,760
these things this is a mystery just like

883
00:36:45,890 --> 00:36:43,440
other Mysteries that we encounter what

884
00:36:47,870 --> 00:36:45,900
happens after we die you know what the

885
00:36:50,329 --> 00:36:47,880
universe begin is there a God and these

886
00:36:52,130 --> 00:36:50,339
are all Elemental questions and UFOs I

887
00:36:53,630 --> 00:36:52,140
think belong there what are these things

888
00:36:56,630 --> 00:36:53,640
where do they come from what do they

889
00:36:58,550 --> 00:36:56,640
want from us yeah um so let's you know

890
00:37:01,609 --> 00:36:58,560
preserve that humility and what I object

891
00:37:03,770 --> 00:37:01,619
to frankly are the people who claim to

892
00:37:04,790 --> 00:37:03,780
have the answers the skeptic so-called

893
00:37:05,990 --> 00:37:04,800
Skeptics because they're not really

894
00:37:08,089 --> 00:37:06,000
skeptical because they haven't really

895
00:37:09,890 --> 00:37:08,099
studied the field and emerged with real

896
00:37:12,530 --> 00:37:09,900
questions what they have is a flip

897
00:37:14,510 --> 00:37:12,540
answer to anything that comes out oh

898
00:37:16,130 --> 00:37:14,520
that's nonsense oh they're having a

899
00:37:18,950 --> 00:37:16,140
nightmare well these things don't only

900
00:37:21,109 --> 00:37:18,960
happen at night uh oh you know it's a

901
00:37:21,829 --> 00:37:21,119
fabrication well these people most of

902
00:37:23,630 --> 00:37:21,839
them

903
00:37:26,630 --> 00:37:23,640
coming forward don't want to come

904
00:37:28,190 --> 00:37:26,640
forward they are troubled by what they

905
00:37:30,410 --> 00:37:28,200
encountered or what they saw what they

906
00:37:32,210 --> 00:37:30,420
think they saw so they're not rushing

907
00:37:34,130 --> 00:37:32,220
forward to get media attention on the

908
00:37:36,230 --> 00:37:34,140
contrary so

909
00:37:39,170 --> 00:37:36,240
um you know we've got to preserve our

910
00:37:41,030 --> 00:37:39,180
humility here this is a very difficult

911
00:37:44,750 --> 00:37:41,040
Tangled

912
00:37:48,170 --> 00:37:44,760
mysterious field and let's start by

913
00:37:49,609 --> 00:37:48,180
saying we know very little about it

914
00:37:52,849 --> 00:37:49,619
right right

915
00:37:55,130 --> 00:37:52,859
um I see a lot of uh tweets by uh Ross

916
00:37:56,990 --> 00:37:55,140
coldheart who's coming out with

917
00:37:59,630 --> 00:37:57,000
um quite a few people that are kind of

918
00:38:02,210 --> 00:37:59,640
cooperating a lot of this

919
00:38:05,030 --> 00:38:02,220
um I wanted to know have you when's the

920
00:38:07,609 --> 00:38:05,040
last time you you spoke with David

921
00:38:10,849 --> 00:38:07,619
well Leslie has been mainly eye contact

922
00:38:14,450 --> 00:38:10,859
with David I we we text back and forth

923
00:38:16,250 --> 00:38:14,460
um so I would say daily yeah how's he

924
00:38:18,530 --> 00:38:16,260
doing at this point what is happening

925
00:38:20,870 --> 00:38:18,540
with him yeah he's been inundated with

926
00:38:25,069 --> 00:38:20,880
attention as you can imagine yeah

927
00:38:26,750 --> 00:38:25,079
um you know it is a um uh

928
00:38:28,609 --> 00:38:26,760
uh a Whirlpool I don't know what the

929
00:38:32,450 --> 00:38:28,619
image is I mean once you get into this

930
00:38:34,849 --> 00:38:32,460
kind of a media sensation thing uh it it

931
00:38:36,829 --> 00:38:34,859
it's really overwhelming and I don't

932
00:38:38,390 --> 00:38:36,839
know if he realized I mean he's a he's

933
00:38:40,490 --> 00:38:38,400
not you know he's a Air Force

934
00:38:42,589 --> 00:38:40,500
intelligence guy

935
00:38:44,569 --> 00:38:42,599
um who's not used to dealing with the

936
00:38:47,390 --> 00:38:44,579
media he came forward because of his

937
00:38:51,050 --> 00:38:47,400
courage and you know interest in

938
00:38:54,650 --> 00:38:51,060
um in in discussing this very important

939
00:38:57,770 --> 00:38:54,660
uh you know uh feel that the information

940
00:39:01,609 --> 00:38:57,780
that he he had obtained but he he wasn't

941
00:39:04,069 --> 00:39:01,619
used to this media Whirlwind and now

942
00:39:06,470 --> 00:39:04,079
suddenly he's in the middle of it so I

943
00:39:07,609 --> 00:39:06,480
think he's he's kind of overwhelmed as

944
00:39:10,310 --> 00:39:07,619
we all are I mean there's been

945
00:39:12,710 --> 00:39:10,320
tremendous reaction to this piece

946
00:39:14,569 --> 00:39:12,720
um and I've you know I've been in

947
00:39:15,829 --> 00:39:14,579
journalism a long time Leslie has too so

948
00:39:17,150 --> 00:39:15,839
we're kind of used to it I don't think

949
00:39:19,730 --> 00:39:17,160
he is

950
00:39:22,370 --> 00:39:19,740
you know it's funny uh uh when this

951
00:39:24,410 --> 00:39:22,380
first dropped Monday morning I woke up

952
00:39:27,470 --> 00:39:24,420
and said wow you know what I saw this

953
00:39:30,530 --> 00:39:27,480
and uh right away immediately

954
00:39:32,270 --> 00:39:30,540
there someone was was putting out there

955
00:39:35,030 --> 00:39:32,280
um he's just trying to get a a movie

956
00:39:36,950 --> 00:39:35,040
deal he's just trying to get you know on

957
00:39:39,050 --> 00:39:36,960
TV he's just trying to do this and that

958
00:39:40,690 --> 00:39:39,060
uh what would you say to the people that

959
00:39:44,210 --> 00:39:40,700
are coming out of that immediately

960
00:39:47,150 --> 00:39:44,220
anybody can disparage anybody with you

961
00:39:49,310 --> 00:39:47,160
know some uh theory that they're

962
00:39:51,349 --> 00:39:49,320
convinced of you know that these people

963
00:39:53,089 --> 00:39:51,359
are doing it for self-interest we've

964
00:39:55,370 --> 00:39:53,099
checked this guy out nothing in his

965
00:39:57,170 --> 00:39:55,380
background suggested that he was

966
00:39:59,390 --> 00:39:57,180
interested in you know personal

967
00:40:02,089 --> 00:39:59,400
aggrandizement

968
00:40:05,030 --> 00:40:02,099
um that he had you know that he was

969
00:40:06,470 --> 00:40:05,040
um media Savvy or even interested in

970
00:40:08,030 --> 00:40:06,480
personal attention he was an

971
00:40:10,910 --> 00:40:08,040
intelligence guy with a decorated

972
00:40:12,530 --> 00:40:10,920
officer in Afghanistan

973
00:40:14,870 --> 00:40:12,540
um and yet

974
00:40:16,370 --> 00:40:14,880
um he saw something here that didn't sit

975
00:40:19,730 --> 00:40:16,380
well with him this is what you know

976
00:40:22,190 --> 00:40:19,740
people do who have a conscience and he

977
00:40:23,930 --> 00:40:22,200
thought that information was being

978
00:40:26,270 --> 00:40:23,940
improperly withheld from Congress and

979
00:40:28,310 --> 00:40:26,280
what probably impelled him was the

980
00:40:30,829 --> 00:40:28,320
retaliation that he suffered as soon as

981
00:40:32,990 --> 00:40:30,839
he came forward you know some people are

982
00:40:35,930 --> 00:40:33,000
intimidated by that other people are

983
00:40:38,390 --> 00:40:35,940
energized by it and determined not to to

984
00:40:42,230 --> 00:40:38,400
to be intimidated and I think they

985
00:40:44,030 --> 00:40:42,240
picked on the wrong guy so

986
00:40:46,069 --> 00:40:44,040
um you know again

987
00:40:48,290 --> 00:40:46,079
nothing is suggested we wouldn't have

988
00:40:50,150 --> 00:40:48,300
you know attached our names and

989
00:40:53,150 --> 00:40:50,160
reputations to somebody who was out to

990
00:40:56,270 --> 00:40:53,160
you know uh to make a movie

991
00:40:59,870 --> 00:40:56,280
right that's good uh his uh tweet by

992
00:41:02,030 --> 00:40:59,880
Ross uh coldheart about 16 hours ago has

993
00:41:05,510 --> 00:41:02,040
Chris sharp correctly points out in this

994
00:41:08,390 --> 00:41:05,520
article aaro does not speak for the

995
00:41:11,530 --> 00:41:08,400
entire Department of Defense goff's E.T

996
00:41:15,650 --> 00:41:11,540
denial was only on the behalf of the dod

997
00:41:18,470 --> 00:41:15,660
aaro not the dod journalists need to ask

998
00:41:21,349 --> 00:41:18,480
the Pentagon more carefully does it

999
00:41:23,990 --> 00:41:21,359
categorically deny the knowledge of

1000
00:41:27,470 --> 00:41:24,000
non-human intelligence which I think is

1001
00:41:29,089 --> 00:41:27,480
a very good point yeah these uh denials

1002
00:41:30,849 --> 00:41:29,099
that are coming out of the Pentagon the

1003
00:41:34,069 --> 00:41:30,859
latest statement from Susan Gough about

1004
00:41:36,829 --> 00:41:34,079
aaro the old domain you know anomaly

1005
00:41:39,829 --> 00:41:36,839
resolution office which is the successor

1006
00:41:41,510 --> 00:41:39,839
to the task force uh now because they

1007
00:41:43,010 --> 00:41:41,520
were all domain because they're noticing

1008
00:41:45,410 --> 00:41:43,020
that these things operate in the water

1009
00:41:46,089 --> 00:41:45,420
too by the way

1010
00:41:49,849 --> 00:41:46,099
um

1011
00:41:53,230 --> 00:41:49,859
not just the air so these responses are

1012
00:41:55,849 --> 00:41:53,240
pretty carefully worded and

1013
00:41:57,770 --> 00:41:55,859
you're absolutely whoever tweeted that

1014
00:41:59,770 --> 00:41:57,780
is absolutely right that you know the

1015
00:42:03,650 --> 00:41:59,780
public and and journalists have to ask

1016
00:42:06,230 --> 00:42:03,660
the government the Pentagon more more

1017
00:42:08,750 --> 00:42:06,240
um openly and more dramatically and more

1018
00:42:12,010 --> 00:42:08,760
demandingly

1019
00:42:15,170 --> 00:42:12,020
um are they saying that uh Grocer's

1020
00:42:18,349 --> 00:42:15,180
statements are not true are they denying

1021
00:42:19,730 --> 00:42:18,359
his position in uh former position in

1022
00:42:21,410 --> 00:42:19,740
the government the access to the

1023
00:42:23,510 --> 00:42:21,420
information he had you know what part of

1024
00:42:26,210 --> 00:42:23,520
it are they challenging these statements

1025
00:42:28,190 --> 00:42:26,220
are sometimes carefully crafted

1026
00:42:29,750 --> 00:42:28,200
um to be true in one sense but they're

1027
00:42:32,630 --> 00:42:29,760
they're not true in the overall sense

1028
00:42:34,490 --> 00:42:32,640
and I'll say that at the same time that

1029
00:42:35,810 --> 00:42:34,500
when you listen to the testimony of

1030
00:42:39,650 --> 00:42:35,820
officials

1031
00:42:42,829 --> 00:42:39,660
um at the uh you know UFO Hearing in May

1032
00:42:45,650 --> 00:42:42,839
of 2022 that was also carefully worded

1033
00:42:48,410 --> 00:42:45,660
and Kirkpatrick's testimony recently to

1034
00:42:51,170 --> 00:42:48,420
Congress that was carefully worded

1035
00:42:52,670 --> 00:42:51,180
um so you got to really keep asking

1036
00:42:55,370 --> 00:42:52,680
these questions what is it that they're

1037
00:42:58,550 --> 00:42:55,380
denying I mean sometimes the Pentagon

1038
00:43:00,050 --> 00:42:58,560
officials say I personally you know have

1039
00:43:02,089 --> 00:43:00,060
no knowledge of this well they

1040
00:43:04,309 --> 00:43:02,099
personally might not have that knowledge

1041
00:43:07,010 --> 00:43:04,319
but somebody else there does have that

1042
00:43:09,950 --> 00:43:07,020
knowledge so in any way I in any case I

1043
00:43:10,970 --> 00:43:09,960
think uh it's very important to read

1044
00:43:13,609 --> 00:43:10,980
these

1045
00:43:16,309 --> 00:43:13,619
um statements of response carefully to

1046
00:43:19,430 --> 00:43:16,319
see what the government is actually uh

1047
00:43:21,829 --> 00:43:19,440
you know asserting here and I would be

1048
00:43:23,930 --> 00:43:21,839
very curious and very dubious if they

1049
00:43:26,870 --> 00:43:23,940
were to come forward now and say that

1050
00:43:28,730 --> 00:43:26,880
gurush is not who he said he is and his

1051
00:43:30,230 --> 00:43:28,740
access is not what he says it was

1052
00:43:33,170 --> 00:43:30,240
because we have

1053
00:43:35,089 --> 00:43:33,180
basically you know vetted that very

1054
00:43:38,329 --> 00:43:35,099
carefully before we published our

1055
00:43:40,069 --> 00:43:38,339
article yeah for the person that's uh

1056
00:43:43,250 --> 00:43:40,079
for the person out there that likes to

1057
00:43:45,050 --> 00:43:43,260
listen and watch shows like this and too

1058
00:43:47,630 --> 00:43:45,060
lazy to read

1059
00:43:50,990 --> 00:43:47,640
in a nutshell can you tell us what his

1060
00:43:53,750 --> 00:43:51,000
complaint the gist of his complaint yeah

1061
00:43:56,930 --> 00:43:53,760
he says um that he was a high-level

1062
00:43:59,569 --> 00:43:56,940
intelligence officer in various uh

1063
00:44:03,530 --> 00:43:59,579
intelligence agencies

1064
00:44:06,770 --> 00:44:03,540
um that that had responsibility for UFOs

1065
00:44:08,990 --> 00:44:06,780
unidentified aerial phenomena and that

1066
00:44:11,210 --> 00:44:09,000
he knows from talking to people and

1067
00:44:15,190 --> 00:44:11,220
information that he has seen as a result

1068
00:44:18,790 --> 00:44:15,200
of his privileged access that the U.S

1069
00:44:22,430 --> 00:44:18,800
has recovered over the years

1070
00:44:26,750 --> 00:44:22,440
intact and partially intact uh craft

1071
00:44:30,290 --> 00:44:26,760
vehicles of non-human origin and that by

1072
00:44:32,870 --> 00:44:30,300
uh in in retaliation for coming forward

1073
00:44:37,430 --> 00:44:32,880
with this information he's been subject

1074
00:44:40,130 --> 00:44:37,440
subjected to illegal reprisals

1075
00:44:42,770 --> 00:44:40,140
um and that uh and he has given this

1076
00:44:45,050 --> 00:44:42,780
information not just to to the media to

1077
00:44:48,109 --> 00:44:45,060
to Leslie and I

1078
00:44:50,270 --> 00:44:48,119
um uh you know for this debrief article

1079
00:44:51,890 --> 00:44:50,280
but that he is supplied it to to

1080
00:44:54,050 --> 00:44:51,900
Congress to members of congressional

1081
00:44:56,450 --> 00:44:54,060
committees to members of Congress there

1082
00:44:58,450 --> 00:44:56,460
was a hundred a transcript of hundreds

1083
00:45:01,370 --> 00:44:58,460
of pages of his information classified

1084
00:45:03,349 --> 00:45:01,380
so you can imagine it's more detailed

1085
00:45:07,309 --> 00:45:03,359
than what he told us

1086
00:45:11,450 --> 00:45:07,319
um so that really is a I guess the the

1087
00:45:13,130 --> 00:45:11,460
gist of the sensation to the story as

1088
00:45:16,010 --> 00:45:13,140
it's been received that he's on the

1089
00:45:19,730 --> 00:45:16,020
record he's a high level guy with

1090
00:45:22,550 --> 00:45:19,740
um uh really very high level access very

1091
00:45:24,829 --> 00:45:22,560
well plugged in his lawyer is a former

1092
00:45:27,710 --> 00:45:24,839
Inspector General of the intelligence

1093
00:45:30,650 --> 00:45:27,720
Community uh other people vouch for him

1094
00:45:33,410 --> 00:45:30,660
on the record uh as

1095
00:45:36,950 --> 00:45:33,420
um you know as a serious person as a

1096
00:45:38,329 --> 00:45:36,960
intelligence official so that to me adds

1097
00:45:39,589 --> 00:45:38,339
up to a good story

1098
00:45:42,230 --> 00:45:39,599
mm-hmm

1099
00:45:45,290 --> 00:45:42,240
all right well um I would like to I'd

1100
00:45:50,030 --> 00:45:45,300
like to close this show with these two

1101
00:45:52,309 --> 00:45:50,040
questions and it's a two-part question

1102
00:45:53,270 --> 00:45:52,319
when you go to publish something like

1103
00:45:56,510 --> 00:45:53,280
this

1104
00:45:58,849 --> 00:45:56,520
things must go on you know in your head

1105
00:46:00,410 --> 00:45:58,859
you and Leslie both must be thinking

1106
00:46:02,930 --> 00:46:00,420
okay

1107
00:46:05,809 --> 00:46:02,940
what's the worst case scenario when we

1108
00:46:07,609 --> 00:46:05,819
publish this and the second part that

1109
00:46:09,230 --> 00:46:07,619
I'd like you to answer what do you think

1110
00:46:11,150 --> 00:46:09,240
the best case scenario but let's start

1111
00:46:13,910 --> 00:46:11,160
with the worst case scenario well the

1112
00:46:15,829 --> 00:46:13,920
worst case scenario if any journalist is

1113
00:46:18,770 --> 00:46:15,839
that you've got something wrong you miss

1114
00:46:21,170 --> 00:46:18,780
them you missed something someone misled

1115
00:46:23,630 --> 00:46:21,180
you or lied to you

1116
00:46:25,490 --> 00:46:23,640
um and uh I think probably every

1117
00:46:28,069 --> 00:46:25,500
journalist has had the experience in

1118
00:46:31,190 --> 00:46:28,079
especially in a long career of waking up

1119
00:46:32,750 --> 00:46:31,200
the next day and finding that some

1120
00:46:36,710 --> 00:46:32,760
terrible error has been committed

1121
00:46:38,089 --> 00:46:36,720
something was distorted left out

1122
00:46:40,730 --> 00:46:38,099
um somebody who told you something

1123
00:46:41,990 --> 00:46:40,740
wasn't who he or she said you know they

1124
00:46:43,849 --> 00:46:42,000
were

1125
00:46:45,770 --> 00:46:43,859
um that's always a journalist nightmare

1126
00:46:47,450 --> 00:46:45,780
that you forgot something that's why you

1127
00:46:49,670 --> 00:46:47,460
worked so hard to double check and

1128
00:46:50,809 --> 00:46:49,680
that's why there's so many levels of of

1129
00:46:54,530 --> 00:46:50,819
editing

1130
00:46:56,390 --> 00:46:54,540
uh which which we uh absolutely support

1131
00:46:58,910 --> 00:46:56,400
and and we had them at the debrief

1132
00:47:00,410 --> 00:46:58,920
they're very uh dedicated and

1133
00:47:03,589 --> 00:47:00,420
knowledgeable people there who are

1134
00:47:05,210 --> 00:47:03,599
experts in defense and intelligence so

1135
00:47:07,309 --> 00:47:05,220
that's that's the worst case that you

1136
00:47:10,010 --> 00:47:07,319
wake oh my God you know I put out a

1137
00:47:11,990 --> 00:47:10,020
story that's completely wrong

1138
00:47:14,270 --> 00:47:12,000
um you know I miss something a person

1139
00:47:16,730 --> 00:47:14,280
lied to me

1140
00:47:18,650 --> 00:47:16,740
um I was fed some information that was

1141
00:47:21,829 --> 00:47:18,660
wrong that is not the case here I don't

1142
00:47:23,870 --> 00:47:21,839
want to this to go out as a yeah a clip

1143
00:47:25,730 --> 00:47:23,880
that uh he's saying that his story was

1144
00:47:28,309 --> 00:47:25,740
wrong someone's going to edit it yeah

1145
00:47:30,950 --> 00:47:28,319
yeah right piece that together keep fake

1146
00:47:33,290 --> 00:47:30,960
yeah so please uh that is not the case

1147
00:47:36,410 --> 00:47:33,300
here everything we've only gotten praise

1148
00:47:38,270 --> 00:47:36,420
for the article I must say uh

1149
00:47:40,730 --> 00:47:38,280
you know

1150
00:47:43,550 --> 00:47:40,740
it has stood up well and that's every

1151
00:47:45,950 --> 00:47:43,560
everybody's every journalist's greatest

1152
00:47:47,569 --> 00:47:45,960
hope after an article runs and the best

1153
00:47:49,790 --> 00:47:47,579
case scenario is it'll have some effect

1154
00:47:51,650 --> 00:47:49,800
it'll wake up Congress

1155
00:47:54,170 --> 00:47:51,660
it'll continue to you know raise

1156
00:47:56,870 --> 00:47:54,180
questions about uh why this information

1157
00:48:00,349 --> 00:47:56,880
hasn't been shared with uh you know the

1158
00:48:03,109 --> 00:48:00,359
American people the world this is not uh

1159
00:48:07,190 --> 00:48:03,119
you know secret information that has to

1160
00:48:10,609 --> 00:48:07,200
be kept from Humanity that that we we uh

1161
00:48:13,790 --> 00:48:10,619
U.S agencies have recovered according to

1162
00:48:17,510 --> 00:48:13,800
what a group said recovered partial and

1163
00:48:19,609 --> 00:48:17,520
intact uh non-human craft

1164
00:48:22,790 --> 00:48:19,619
um this is a huge you know breakthrough

1165
00:48:26,270 --> 00:48:22,800
for Humanity the way he described it

1166
00:48:30,589 --> 00:48:26,280
um and uh Congress needs to address it

1167
00:48:31,329 --> 00:48:30,599
we need to go further and see what as as

1168
00:48:33,710 --> 00:48:31,339
um

1169
00:48:35,829 --> 00:48:33,720
you know we also pointed at the end of

1170
00:48:39,410 --> 00:48:35,839
the article there's possible scientific

1171
00:48:41,329 --> 00:48:39,420
advantages breakthroughs that are uh in

1172
00:48:43,670 --> 00:48:41,339
store here if this information is is

1173
00:48:46,309 --> 00:48:43,680
correct that this technology could be

1174
00:48:48,349 --> 00:48:46,319
applied to the benefit of of the entire

1175
00:48:51,170 --> 00:48:48,359
human race

1176
00:48:55,010 --> 00:48:51,180
um so that's the best case that this

1177
00:48:56,870 --> 00:48:55,020
really results in an opening of of the

1178
00:48:59,870 --> 00:48:56,880
doors more information within the

1179
00:49:01,430 --> 00:48:59,880
confines of obviously classified uh

1180
00:49:02,690 --> 00:49:01,440
National Security information the

1181
00:49:05,630 --> 00:49:02,700
government still has a right to keep

1182
00:49:08,809 --> 00:49:05,640
certain secrets we don't challenge that

1183
00:49:12,430 --> 00:49:08,819
um but within

1184
00:49:15,050 --> 00:49:12,440
the ability of the government to

1185
00:49:16,910 --> 00:49:15,060
promulgate this information perhaps more

1186
00:49:18,890 --> 00:49:16,920
more needs to come out

1187
00:49:21,589 --> 00:49:18,900
right and

1188
00:49:23,329 --> 00:49:21,599
you know you make a point about the

1189
00:49:26,210 --> 00:49:23,339
secrecy there needs to be some secrecy

1190
00:49:28,910 --> 00:49:26,220
and I do agree with that but under the

1191
00:49:33,050 --> 00:49:28,920
big umbrella I would say of National

1192
00:49:35,809 --> 00:49:33,060
Defense do you think we're going to see

1193
00:49:37,970 --> 00:49:35,819
this is a speculation question do you

1194
00:49:39,890 --> 00:49:37,980
have any confidence that we're going to

1195
00:49:40,790 --> 00:49:39,900
see some transparency on this whole

1196
00:49:42,890 --> 00:49:40,800
thing

1197
00:49:45,230 --> 00:49:42,900
well I think the door has been you know

1198
00:49:46,849 --> 00:49:45,240
opened

1199
00:49:48,530 --> 00:49:46,859
um you know Genie's let out of the

1200
00:49:49,490 --> 00:49:48,540
bottle you can take whatever image you

1201
00:49:51,290 --> 00:49:49,500
want

1202
00:49:53,150 --> 00:49:51,300
um you know once people like Dave grush

1203
00:49:56,030 --> 00:49:53,160
come forward and say certain things it's

1204
00:49:57,530 --> 00:49:56,040
it's pretty hard to unsay them

1205
00:49:59,750 --> 00:49:57,540
um so now

1206
00:50:02,870 --> 00:49:59,760
um my expectation is that more

1207
00:50:05,390 --> 00:50:02,880
information will surface more witnesses

1208
00:50:06,950 --> 00:50:05,400
will come forward again I don't question

1209
00:50:10,970 --> 00:50:06,960
the need to keep certain information

1210
00:50:11,710 --> 00:50:10,980
classified that's uh you know legitimate

1211
00:50:14,950 --> 00:50:11,720
um

1212
00:50:18,530 --> 00:50:14,960
mission of any government

1213
00:50:22,309 --> 00:50:18,540
worldwide to protect its its people

1214
00:50:25,609 --> 00:50:22,319
um but uh this information some of it

1215
00:50:28,250 --> 00:50:25,619
you know goes beyond that it's not a

1216
00:50:30,490 --> 00:50:28,260
national security details or technology

1217
00:50:33,710 --> 00:50:30,500
it's just general

1218
00:50:35,950 --> 00:50:33,720
information that is is World shattering

1219
00:50:38,750 --> 00:50:35,960
if it's if it's true the way Dave Rush

1220
00:50:42,050 --> 00:50:38,760
said it so

1221
00:50:45,770 --> 00:50:42,060
um uh yeah I expected to to open the

1222
00:50:48,109 --> 00:50:45,780
door and uh I think it can only Advance

1223
00:50:50,870 --> 00:50:48,119
it's pretty hard to to shut that door

1224
00:50:52,250 --> 00:50:50,880
now that's right yeah yeah because of

1225
00:50:53,630 --> 00:50:52,260
all the demands that are coming from

1226
00:50:55,430 --> 00:50:53,640
different quarters

1227
00:50:57,109 --> 00:50:55,440
you know the one last thing I know that

1228
00:50:58,849 --> 00:50:57,119
I said that was the last question a

1229
00:51:00,829 --> 00:50:58,859
question ago but it's not really a

1230
00:51:04,910 --> 00:51:00,839
question it's more of a statement but

1231
00:51:07,250 --> 00:51:04,920
I'm I'm a little surprised that this

1232
00:51:08,510 --> 00:51:07,260
isn't like blasted all over the news

1233
00:51:11,870 --> 00:51:08,520
everywhere do you think it's just

1234
00:51:14,630 --> 00:51:11,880
momentum that it eventually will be

1235
00:51:17,030 --> 00:51:14,640
picked up by everybody

1236
00:51:19,309 --> 00:51:17,040
you know from my perspective it is being

1237
00:51:22,370 --> 00:51:19,319
blasted over the news I mean I'm getting

1238
00:51:25,370 --> 00:51:22,380
you know I see it's surfacing on TV

1239
00:51:30,589 --> 00:51:25,380
stations uh you know mainstream media

1240
00:51:32,809 --> 00:51:30,599
you know blogs uh podcasts so uh yeah I

1241
00:51:33,589 --> 00:51:32,819
don't know what more can can happen I

1242
00:51:35,270 --> 00:51:33,599
mean

1243
00:51:37,670 --> 00:51:35,280
um plus you know there's a natural

1244
00:51:41,809 --> 00:51:37,680
progression to these things it kind of

1245
00:51:43,910 --> 00:51:41,819
spreads so organically yeah yeah uh I

1246
00:51:46,790 --> 00:51:43,920
see tremendous reactions so far and

1247
00:51:48,530 --> 00:51:46,800
let's see where it goes yeah

1248
00:51:51,349 --> 00:51:48,540
um I I only say that statement because

1249
00:51:54,049 --> 00:51:51,359
you know I'm out out in the public and

1250
00:51:55,549 --> 00:51:54,059
my girlfriend also has like said you

1251
00:51:57,710 --> 00:51:55,559
know called her cousins and like

1252
00:52:00,109 --> 00:51:57,720
California hey did you hear like a no no

1253
00:52:02,210 --> 00:52:00,119
I didn't hear you know eventually more

1254
00:52:04,190 --> 00:52:02,220
people will hear about it you know I

1255
00:52:06,829 --> 00:52:04,200
think everyone like us that pays

1256
00:52:08,990 --> 00:52:06,839
attention to this is probably you know

1257
00:52:10,490 --> 00:52:09,000
it's on the radar but it may not

1258
00:52:12,950 --> 00:52:10,500
eventually I hope it's on everybody's

1259
00:52:14,210 --> 00:52:12,960
radar because remember that there's a

1260
00:52:15,410 --> 00:52:14,220
lot of terrible things going on in the

1261
00:52:18,589 --> 00:52:15,420
world right now though that's true

1262
00:52:21,530 --> 00:52:18,599
Ukraine and you know poison air in New

1263
00:52:23,569 --> 00:52:21,540
York and uh yeah you know so this is a

1264
00:52:25,370 --> 00:52:23,579
story it's not the only story out there

1265
00:52:28,190 --> 00:52:25,380
it's a it's a story it's an interesting

1266
00:52:30,650 --> 00:52:28,200
story but the world is a big place and

1267
00:52:32,569 --> 00:52:30,660
there's a lot of tragedy going on and a

1268
00:52:34,970 --> 00:52:32,579
lot of you know other things happening

1269
00:52:37,430 --> 00:52:34,980
so uh you know we don't think that

1270
00:52:40,549 --> 00:52:37,440
everything should stop for our story I

1271
00:52:43,309 --> 00:52:40,559
mean uh it has to take its place in a

1272
00:52:45,890 --> 00:52:43,319
very fast changing news environment and

1273
00:52:48,589 --> 00:52:45,900
uh you know Lord knows is enough trouble

1274
00:52:51,650 --> 00:52:48,599
going on in the world that you know to

1275
00:52:53,450 --> 00:52:51,660
distract your attention so this will

1276
00:52:55,609 --> 00:52:53,460
take its place with other things it'll

1277
00:52:57,410 --> 00:52:55,619
pass you know people's attention will go

1278
00:53:00,470 --> 00:52:57,420
into other things but we hope we've made

1279
00:53:03,650 --> 00:53:00,480
some impact that will last here and that

1280
00:53:05,410 --> 00:53:03,660
um maybe uh you know pry open the doors

1281
00:53:08,270 --> 00:53:05,420
a little bit for more information

1282
00:53:10,309 --> 00:53:08,280
exactly very well said Ralph thank you

1283
00:53:12,230 --> 00:53:10,319
so much it's always a pleasure speaking

1284
00:53:14,990 --> 00:53:12,240
with you Martin likewise thanks for

1285
00:53:17,270 --> 00:53:15,000
having me all right thank you all right

1286
00:53:19,670 --> 00:53:17,280
everyone so um I think that was a great

1287
00:53:22,549 --> 00:53:19,680
interesting show and uh keep your eyes

1288
00:53:25,700 --> 00:53:22,559
on this topic thank you very much for uh

1289
00:53:47,230 --> 00:53:34,810
[Music]